They believe that Jesus was "resurrected" as a spirit. I do not believe this is biblical. Christ himself said that he was flesh and bones. If he was a spirit at that time then he was lying. Since he perfectly reflects God and God can not lie then I have to believe he was resurected.
Indian Larry
JoinedPosts by Indian Larry
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JW beliefs that are clearly not based on scripture
by JimmyPage inmustaches are okay, but beards are not.
suits and dresses are the only acceptable forms of clothing for worship.. .
how many times is the term "governing body" found in bible?
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Suicide - How many do you know within the JWs
by Lady Lee inthw wts likes to play games with their statistics.
one interesting but truly tragic is the number of jwhovah's witnesses who commit suicie.. now i suspect that if a person commits suicide shortly before or after they are disfellowshipped then the elders would say that person wasn't a witness or that they had done something so terrible that they were too guilty to admit it and by their action of committing suicide they pretty much declared they were no longer a jw.. yup fancy talk to make sure any crap didn't fall on them.. so my question.. do you know of cases like this?
if so then can you answer a few more questions.. had this person been dfed or in real danger of being dfed or whatever the equivalent is if they were never baptized?.
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Indian Larry
I know of at least 5. One was my best friend as a child, and the other was the mother of one of my closest friends now. He called me when he looked through the window and saw her body inside. I came and helped open the door. She cut her wrists. She also left a rambling note about the "truth".
Very sad. They broke down this way
3 teenage males
1 early 30's male (fighting against homosexuality - great guy a real loss)
1 mid 40's female with 3 children
I know of another serious attempt by a sister who came very very close to dying after refusing a transfusion. Two years later she took 70 Xanex.
Sad.
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Help add to the list of things that convinced you Jehovah's Witnesses beliefs are flawed, that Governing Body are hypercritical, and deceiving >>>
by Butterflyleia85 insources to your claim will help with proof.... thanks.
these are a few i looked up and is just a rough note taking list so i didn't edit it and it's just done by basic looking through alot of articles and posts i've see:.
malawi-mexico contradiction... when a lot of the jehovah's witnesses were tortured and killed because the governing body forbade them to buy a card whereas the mexicans were allowed too.the real reason for the "donation arrangement"... property the wts owns in brooklyn heights alone would generate almost $10,000,000 (yes, ten million) in tax money each year for the city of new york-- that is if they had to pay taxes on it.
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Indian Larry
The WTS say that the elders are appointed by Holy Spirit, yet there is proof that certain elders were pedophiles WHEN they were appointed. Did the HS appoint them? I don't think so.
Another thing that bothers me is the constant self aggrandisement that the GB prints in almost every WT.
Faithful and Discreet? That is a joke.
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Does 2Thes 2:1-3 prove some of the disciples gave "false prophecies"?
by booker-t ini have mentioned a few times on this board that my jw's brother just will not let it go with me and continues to prove to me that jesus disciples and other prophets in the bible have given "false" prophecies" or "wrong expectations" concerning the end of the world.
he feels that jw's should not be condemned for their many false predictions.
as always the first thing he will tell me is that "jw's admit to their mistakes therefore we are not false prophets.
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Indian Larry
You might try to help him see your viewpoint this way by helping him to understand that he Watchtower had no other choice but to admit their “mistake”. When you predict that the end will come in 1925 and it does not happen, what other choice do you have? You must admit you were wrong. Rutherford admitted after this debacle that he “made and ass of himself”.
The problem is he did not just make himself look bad. He brought ridicule and dishonor on God’s name. Here are some of the predictions he made just about 1925:
1922 "This chronology is not of man, but of God. Being of divine origin and
divinely corroborated, present-truth chronology stands in a class by itself,
absolutely and unqualifiedly correct...." (Watchtower, July 15, 1922 p. 217)
1923 "Our thought is, that 1925 is definitely settled by the Scriptures. As to
Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had
upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge." (Watchtower, p. 106, March 1, 1923)
1924 "The year 1925 is a date definitely and clearly marked in Scriptures, even
more clearly than that of 1914. (Watchtower 1924, p. 211)
Then by 1925 he starts hedging his bets by blaming Satan for what he previously said was “of God”
1925 "It is to be expected that Satan will try to inject into the minds of the
consecrated, the thought that 1925 should see an end to the work." (Watchtower,
Sept. 1925, p. 262)
In the scripture in question Paul was warning about this very thing. He said
“not to be quickly shaken from YOUR reason nor to be excited either through an inspired expression or through a verbal message or through a letter as though from us, to the effect that the day of Jehovah is here.”
Paul here is warning that there will be people who claim to be apostles (or who claim to speak for God) that will give “inspired expressions” or “verbal messages” that would say that “the day of Jehovah is here”. This is EXACTLY what the society has been doing.
Ask your brother to explain Deuteronomy 18:22. Let him know you are not simply being argumentative but that you sincerely feel that the society is guilty of exactly what is described here. The fact that they admit they were wrong means nothing at all. They had no choice but to admit it.
You could also ask him what he thinks about this quote from Awake!
"True, there have been those in times past who predicted an "end" to the world, even announcing a specific date. Yet nothing happened. The 'end' did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing? Missing from such people were God's truths and the evidence that He was using and guiding them.'' (Awake, Oct. 8, 1968)
You could also draw a comparison between Rutherford and Harold Camping. I think any Witness would admit that camping is a false prophet, if they admit that then how can they justify following Rutherford who was just as much of a false prophet as Camping.
If you really want to help him see TTATT you have to ask questions and teach him to really think. Most Witnesses have a good surface knowledge of “proof scriptures”. You have to go beyond that and get him to learn how to think. That is the hard part. I remember reading somewhere once a comparison between question marks and hooks. Use those hooks to good effect and you might have a 1 in 1000 chance of getting through to him.
If you argue a point and come across as bitter or angry to the WTS then you chances drop to 1 in a million. Help him to know you are sincere, you have sincere questions. Let him try to move you by feeling he is helping you. He has to come to his own conclusions, and even when he does there is no guarantee he will act on them. The cost for disagreeing with the WTS is very very high and only the strongest are willing to accept that price.
Good luck.
PS. The question about Jesus being a false prophet - I believe the transfiguration is how that is explained by the WTS. That is the only explanation I know of. -
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share your reaction after reading CoC and ISoCF
by suavojr inafter reading coc and isocf i cried, i was in shock, disillusioned, angry, and afraid... anyone wants to share their experience?.
i would like to see what you think about these questions when compared with your account.. why people from different backgrounds feel similar reactions?
(cannot be a conpiracy).
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Indian Larry
insearch> That is interesting about Isaiah 37 and 2nd Kings 9. What is the WT explanation for the duplication?
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share your reaction after reading CoC and ISoCF
by suavojr inafter reading coc and isocf i cried, i was in shock, disillusioned, angry, and afraid... anyone wants to share their experience?.
i would like to see what you think about these questions when compared with your account.. why people from different backgrounds feel similar reactions?
(cannot be a conpiracy).
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Indian Larry
Those two books were life changing for me. The society had always said that "apostates" were hateful and spewed out half truths and lies. They were accused of "beating" their former brothers. Ray was the exact opposite of all those charges. He did not denigrate the WT, he did not spew out lies and hate. He used the bible, and the societies own words to show their errors.
There is a reason that Brooklyn does not want anyone reading CoC or ISoCF, because anyone reading these two books can not remain in the organization and be honest to themselves. Period.
On another note, I am not pointing fingers at those who do lie about the borg or tell half truths, I understand the anger almost hate that you can feel when you found out that you have been lied to all your life about the most important part of your life. It sucks. However I truely believe that if you really want to hurt the BORG the best most productive method is to follow the example set both in these books and on Pauls site JWFacts.com.
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Italy: Catholic Church To Pay Taxes!
by metatron inhttp://cryptogon.com/?p=32426.
are kingdom halls next?
i also think the wts is headed for trouble in greece.
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Indian Larry
I can see the Borg spinning this to be the beginning of the politics turning on Babylon the Great. They will use this to amp up the fear factor and try to scare the sheep.
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Whitney Heichel - first hand account from congregation member on Facebook
by sir82 inwhy, he even has gone to some meetings at their kingdom hall!
someone calls with a large wedding tent that they would like to donate and set up in the kingdom hall parking lot for the public memorial on friday.
i was amazed how people who came that didnt even know whitney, but simply felt a need to be here and comfort the family.
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Indian Larry
A previous poster wrote:
[He was baptized, served as a Ministerial Servant, and was even married in a Kingdom Hall.]Does anyone know if he indeed was a M.S.. If so was he still an MS when he was married in the hall, and was he still an MS when he murdered Whitney?
Any proof that he was a regular publisher? I would love to know, especially if he is an MS. I will ask my wife if the HS appointed him.
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Anyone else in the path of Hurricane Sandy?
by ShirleyW inso far here in nyc nothing but light rain and wind, i wish it would stay that way for the duration, but they say so far it's gonna hit hard.. .
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Indian Larry
According to the link below the stock exchange is not as important as it used to be. Most trading is now done digitally from various locations that are dispursed widely.
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Need Advice. Quick.
by AwSnap ini apologize for being absent for so long.
i've got a jw at my house right now (unexpectedly) who is talking to my husband.
he keeps on bringing up that only jw's have universal love....that if you go anywhere in the world, you can mention you're a witness & you'll automatically be welcomed and accepted by fellow jw's.
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Indian Larry
I just read "Broken Promises" post above. It is right on 100%